SOCRATIC SEMINAR-EXTENDED
The Maya people of Toledo who are fighting for communal land rights, constitute, whether they know it or not, a group inimical to the capitalist system as it functions in Belize. The communal land Maya want to live frugally, in harmony with nature, and they wish to share what they have with each other. The communal land Maya are not in the least bit excited about the prospect of petroleum deposits being beneath their lands and waterways. They know they cannot eat oil. But more than that, they are not greedy for the things which oil money can buy.
Editorial (2009, June). Toledo maya disunity. Amandala, Retrieved October 7, 2009, from
http://www.amandala.com.bz/index.php?id=8746
Discuss your reaction to the editorial above and post. Also react to one of your colleague’s post.
Discuss your reaction to the editorial above and post. Also react to one of your colleague’s post.
Well I believe that the editorial is trying to build an awareness of the Maya's standpoint. It uses analogy to show that indeed the Maya value the land they live on. They are not about to just stand to one side and accept what the governmet wishes to impose about the land they believe is duely owed to them.(Minerva Balan)
ReplyDeleteThe Mayas were the first to inhabit Belize.I believe that they deserve to have rights to the land whether it be communial or leased depending on their choice.
ReplyDeleteThe article pointed out the conflict between the Mayas and the government as they seek to acquire land that they have inherited. Though somewhat divided, the Maya Leaders Alliance led by Cristina Coc want to gain access to communial land and on the other hand there are those led by Reynaldo Ico who want leased land.
I share similiar sentiments as Minerva because I too believe that they should stand up for what they believe that is righfully theirs afterall they are not exploiting the land instead they are preserving it to uphold their tradition and uplift themselves and their families. They need to work together because in the end they will all benefit.
In the modern era, the Kekchi have had perhaps the most tragic history of any Mayan group. Traditionally they are from the Verapaz region of Guatemala and were a culturally distinct group. Many archaeological projects and reports resulting from them refer to the small country of Belize, which once formed part of a significant region of Maya settlements stretching back to thousands of years before the Christian era .While the town of Punta Gorda consists of many cultures, 64% of the population in the Toledo District is made up of the Mopan and Kekchi Mayas living in over 30 different villages. After immigrating to southern Belize they established the community of San Pedro de Colombia and branched out into the rest of the Toledo district. Over the years they have mixed with some Mopan, East Indian and Garifuna communities. They the Mayas practice subsistence slash and burn agriculture providing food for many and still have a self-governing "alcalde" system. They are recognized as the poorest and most disenfranchised of the ethnic groups in Belize, however, I believe that they are indigenous but not uncivilized.
ReplyDeleteBelize, a Central American country roughly the size of Belgium, boasts more than 90 protected areas and has an international reputation for conservation and nature-based tourism. Over the past decade, however, the government has issued licenses for logging, oil exploration, and other extractive activities in areas that have traditionally been home to Belize’s indigenous Mayan communities, including Sarstoon Temash National Park, a 41,000-acre area of pristine forests and coastline along the southern border with Guatemala. The hunt for oil in Belize has intensified. The Belize Times recently carried an overview of this effort: “There is oil in Belize”. Over the last forty nine years, oil exploration companies have discovered high grade, crude oil in the country. Belize is the newest exporter of oil to the United States, a development that is starting to upend this small country of 280,000 people…I believe that the government of Belize should decline from where he is now, and should stop from doing senseless things that don’t generate any income for the people but his own pocket. By permitting oil exploration on indigenous lands, the government of Belize is violating international human rights law and possibly several other international treaties, according to the environmental group Global Response.
With all this being said, I fully support the communal land right driven by the Mayas. And I fully support what Miss Marva had said that the Mayas should not just sit back and have capitalist investors along with the Government of Belize have their way with the exploitation of our country. That is raping of our natural resources people! Land………Like the Mayas, the government of Belize should be considering the negative environmental effects arising from the concessions. By granting logging and oil concessions in indigenous territories without local consultation, the Belizean government is violating certain rights guaranteed under the American Declaration of the Rights and Duties of Man.
I believe that the government should have consulted with the Mayan people. This land is what they had fought for many years ago. So why shouldn’t they fight now for it again!!!!
Hats off to the Mayas!!! Many of our other cultures and communities should also learn from this togetherness for together as one we can conquer all.
Remember everyone must respond to my post then respond to one of your colleague's post. Two (2) seperate post.
ReplyDeleteClauddett,
ReplyDeleteI enjoy reading your post. You write that oil exploration on indigenous territories "Violating certain rights guranteed under the American Declaration of the Rights and Duties of Man" (par 3). Is Belize a signatory to this declaration? What if there is significant oil in the this area, should we tap into it for the benifit of all Belizean?
Please follow this link and read the OAS declaration rights and duties of man http://www.hrcr.org/docs/OAS_Declaration/oasrights3.html
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ankn.uaf.edu/IKS/iachr.html
http://www.oas.org/en/countries/country_offices.asp?sCode=BEL (click on Belize to see that Beize is a part Of OAS and has a representative)
Please note this is extracted from the website for our own benefits and knowledge>>>
http://www.cicad.oas.org/oid/TDG/Belize/BZgobENG.htm
In order to strengthen its potential for economic and political development Belize has sought to build closer ties with the Spanish-speaking countries of Central America to complement its historical ties to the English-speaking Caribbean states. Recent foreign policy initiatives include joining with the other Central American countries in signing the CONCAUSA Agreement on regional sustainable development and becoming a full member of the Central American Integration System (SICA) Belize is a member of CARICOM which was founded in 1973. In 1990, it became a member of the OAS. As a member of CARICOM Belize strongly backed efforts by the United States to implement UN Security Council Resolution 940 designed to facilitate the departure of Haiti's de facto authorities from power. The country agreed to contribute military personnel to the Multinational Task Force which restored the democratically elected Government of Haiti in October 1994 and to the United Nations Mission in Haiti (UNMIH).
U.S.-BELIZEAN RELATIONS
The United States and Belize traditionally have had close and cordial relations. The United States is Belize's principal trading partner and major source of investment funds and also is home to the largest Belizean community outside Belize, estimated to be 70,000 strong. Because Belize's economic growth and accompanying democratic political stability are important U.S. objectives in a region successfully emerging from a prolonged period of civil strife, Belize benefits from the U.S.-Caribbean Basin Initiative.
To answer to your question sir>> Yes………Belize is a country very much involve with this OAS declaration. I strongly believe that the Government of Belize should consult and dialogue closely with our Maya brothers and sister and let them decide if the y want to move or give up their land under the certain circumstances. However, as a Belizean citizen as much as I would want GOB to indulge into the oil industry he should and must consider the environmental aspects we would then be faced with.
Agreeing with Miss Dawn … “after all they are not exploiting the land instead they are preserving it”…..
Claudette, u are very right in supporting the Mayas 100% because like has been mentioned b4, the Mayas are not only preserving the land for future generations and their customs in their way of living but also they are in existence in the location and ways of living. Imagine what would come about if the Mayas were to loose their land? Or even if we consider the welcoming of concessions like that of the oil, in their territory? That can cripple the way of living of the Mayas severely! We must bare in mind that they were in fact the first inhabitants of this territory no matter who would like to argue otherwise! Or is it that they should just stand and allow to be driven away once more? No!! They should stand strong, togetherlike always and that is a thought for both MsCoc and Mr Ico- they sould try to bring the Mayas together to fight this common couse instead of making it seem that they are fighting dseparate battles. Bring the Mayas together to build strength- don't devide!!! Many loose by way of devide and conquer!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe Maya people of Toledo have always been traditional farmers of the south. The capitalist system, as it is practised in Belize, with its emphasis on private property, threatens to undermine the Mayan traditionally collaborative way of life.
ReplyDeleteThe stance of the author is to persuade the readers that the Maya of Toledo are victims of such a system. The author believes that the Maya are not money-inclined and that they would not willingly give up or sell their land for it to be exploited by petroleum companies. This is shown by the phrase, "But more than that, they are not greedy for things which oil money can buy."
On the other hand, my personal experience, as someone who has lived and worked in Toledo villages, is that many of the present day Maya are as interested in money as anyone else. This is further demonstrated by the conflict within the Maya community between those who are in favour of communal land rights and others who want to pursue individual land ownership. The Maya do not exist entirely outside the capitalist system. As some Maya have indicated, their ability to develop their land and engage in cash crop farming depends on getting access to bank loans, and to do this, they need to hold individual land titles.
It is important for people commenting on the Maya community from outside of it to avoid creating a romantic stereotype of their way of life. Undoubtedly some Maya are happy with their traditional, communal way of life, and some are not. In the end, it should be the Maya themselves who decide.
According to the editorial, The Maya of Toledo are seeking land right for their collective group and not for an individual seeker. I have heard of land been given away for next to nothing, or purchase by investors that is not affiliate with the country. Why not assist those who desperately want to make good used of the land! The Maya are farmers that can enrich Toledo and the rest of the country with basic provisions that would help to lower the cost of local goods and at the same time keep our money at home.
ReplyDeleteKnowing that Toledo has oil and the benefits it has to easy our financial burden as a country, would deter our government from listening to the cries of the Maya. Dredging for oil would create for sure pollution, deforestation and lost of soil. Prosperity yield problems and the best solution are to sustain the people of Belize for years to come. Oil as we have seen is not long lasted but land can be reuse repeatedly. Communal landing holding practices were common of the Indians and Maya of the seventeen and eighteen centuries. Therefore, to deny the Maya for communal land rights after their descendants have toil the soil is unreasonable.
My utmost believe is that this claim for communal land right will continue for years to come. I believe that the Maya are doing a noble and worthwhile act by standing up for their rights as Belizeans for equal justice for the right to claim land. Even squatters (Belizeans or not) after years are entitle to claim land, should the Maya with all documented evident have less rights than squatters to gain land.
I concur, with many of my colleagues, Dawn mention that regardless of the Maya claims, they are Belizeans and should be given the opportunity to own a piece of land whether it is communal or individual especially if it is pass down from generation to generation. All ethnic groups can learn a valuable lesson that united we stand, divided we must not be for transparent and continuity.
Who is it that owns the land in the southern district of Belize? Is it the Maya community or is it the government of Belize? Obviously, base from the alarm that exists within the courts, the answer to this question is not so, prevalent as one may think it should be. The reason for this is that the view points that exist are so puzzling and overwhelming. To start with, the Maya community was divisions within its own camp, one side prefers communal lands and the other prefers free hands title. The (MLA) Maya leader alliance prefers communal land because their problem is that they don’t want anyone other than a Mayan to live within their camps, and if they get free hand titles they might sell the land to someone other than a Maya, then it will soon not e a Maya community anymore. Secondly though the Consejo and the Santa Cruz Maya had a decisive victory, these groups of Maya are not considered as “Indigenous Maya”. This means that the customary land right is exclusively to them; hence, this is why they are in the courts presently, to prove this on the contrary. This “Maya Land Rights” has raised eye brows or emotional discontent through this nation and especially across cultural or ethnical dynamics. One of the major viewpoints is that 1. The Maya has customary Land rights, then what about, Creole or the Mestizo, but most importantly it is stated clearly in the constitution that the resources of this country should be rested or entrusted in the state (government). This means that no one Ethnic group should be performing the functions f the state and this is certainly what the Maya Leaders Alliance (MLA) is fighting for. Personally I do not agree with the courts of this country. Reverentially it is from this point that I boisterously, object to the victory of the Santa Cruz Maya This certainly opens the way for a dichotomy and anarchism. Now every ethnic group could challenge the constitution’s integrity in the courts. Laws are supposed to be supreme meaning that it should be all-inclusive without exclusions. A situation like this should never be challenge in the courts, especially, where the supreme law has made it abundantly clear, that the resources, of the nation should be rested in the stateaaaaa9goverment).
ReplyDeleteI must agree with Tricia to some extend, in saying that the (MLA) Maya Leader Alliance prefers communal land because they do not want anyone other than a Mayan to live within their community.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I have interpreted from Tricia comments that if those opposing the MLA, and free land titles are given to each individual within the community, they might sell the land to someone other than a Maya, if they are in dire need of finances. MLA fear that the Maya community would be depleted eventually if free land title is given to citizen of the Toledo District for the said reason mention above.
Nevertheless, I must differ in saying that The MLA has seen the squandering of land been monopolized by foreigners and as Belizeans we have to wait in long tedious line for hours not even known if the personnel would see us. It does not stop there; the process is so long and undetermined that most Belizeans have given up in owning land.
However, MLA is speaking for those individuals that might have lost hope and those that are uneducated about their due process. In my personal option everyone should be entitle to a piece of land by the age of twenty-one years. Here the government would be able to plan a fixed community with the proper utilities and infrastructures are in place. Individuals should then be given five years to build a structure that meets the building code standard.
If procedures are in place as what Tricia rightfully stated then acquiring a piece of land for individual used or communal land would ease the tension of any ethnic group from creating havoc for rules and regulation that would be established .
I strongly agree with some of the views of the writer. I believe that the Mayas should be given the rights to the lands because it is there land. They are indigenous and have been using these land as communal land for a very long time. This is the way of life for the Maya people. They work and farm on their land in order to supply for the needs of their families and people. It is unfair to want to take this away from them. I am in full support of the Maya people fighting for their land. The Maya people are humble people, they prefer the simpler things in life. They are not like many of us who have been consumed with materialistic things and always wanting to adapt the American way of live. No, instead they enjoy and live happy with the little that they have. For example, look at their homes, one would think that they are poor. However, that's just what they prefer they don't believe in all the gold and glamour like many of us. I think that the Maya people should be applauded for keeping their tradition and culture alive which unlike many of our cultures are slowly dying for wanting to adapt what is not ours.
ReplyDeleteI would like to see all the Mayas come together as one and fight for the same purpose. In addition, I admire the Maya people and believe that many of us should follow their footsteps in standing up and fighting for our rights and for what we believe in because only then will the government get the sense and stop imposing what they want on us.
I totally agree with the views of Joan Soberanis. Many lands of been given to political cronies for little or nothing. Many have been given to foreignors and they use it for their own personal benefits. Then, why is it that the government is giving the May people such a hard time?. The Maya have contributed to our country in many ways with their communal land so why not let they carry on their business?. Similar to Joan's views, using the land to dredge and dig for oil will not benefit us it never have and it never will because as we all have seen the only ones that benefit from our oil are the foreigners while we are left poor and have to face the negative effects such as pollution.
ReplyDeleteI think the government should leave the Maya people with their land because they are doing something worthwhile with it.
According our law if a person live in Belize for fve years or more and are naturalized you are a Belizean.In my view the Maya people were the first set of people to live on our land. The maya cultivated and clear the land they occupied.The Maya people hve a right to obtain the land they occupied whether they want as a communal, least, or title.The thing that bothers me a lot is that if these people were rich the goverment would have no problem giving the land to these people request.Aren`t we all Belizean do we deserve a piece of this jewel? Maya doea not want the land to build storey houses, or a business, they just want to live comfortable and preserve a piece of land for their children.The mayas are peaceful people they are fighting for silver, gold, or oil because these things does not have ny sort of impact on thier lives as far as I am concern.If the goverment had any mind or regards for these people then with the first word to own their land would been their piority.I do Believed that the Maya people are being set up as to create a division among tnemselves especially when it comes to younger generation who are not updated or inform about what is happeining, the younger youths does not undrstand that whatever decision made by thi present goverment will afect them some way or the other daown the raod.Unity is strength and by playing the divide and conquere role the goverment are in the lead.I believed that the mayas should regain back their unity and continue the fighting process until the goverment of the day decide that they will grant them their land.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with Mrs Newport that present day Maya People who are the younger ones are only thinking about how to earn money.I believed that are being paid to behave in this manner and fashion, which is going against ( MLA).When we had the seminar Mrs Newport made a statement in which outsiders cannot go and live among these people and i agree with her.The older Maya people believed that they are not suppose to socialize with other ethnic groups. The younger Mayas think a little different more because they live among us and we live among them because we all have to.
ReplyDeleteThe Maya people of Toledo, over the years have become familiar with two types of landholdings; the reservation system and the lease. The reservation allows the community to hold the land collectively and its members use whatever area they see fit. Many people prefer this type of arrangement because of the method of milpa farming that is practiced. Since slash and burn agriculture requires shifting cultivation, the reservation provides ample space, or no limitations to movement. On the other hand, the lease system does not allow for much movement but it provides certainty that some people desire.There are people who feel that they don't have true ownership of their land unless they have a lease. Not realizing that a lease is not a title to property. Others have little regard for any lease title since they believe their claim and use of the area makes them the owners of their land.i believe that the maya people should have there individual land, i think they are fighting for a secure future!
ReplyDeletei agree with Dawn stating that the mayas should stand up for what they believe that is righfully theirs afterall they are not exploiting the land instead they are preserving it to uphold their tradition and uplift themselves and their families. i certainly believe that all of them will benefit at the end !!
ReplyDeleteThe Mayas are Belize's indigenous people. They are hard working people that use their land for their survival. They don't ask for much or care for the wealth in this life. All they care about is that they have somewhere to live and plant their crops. That is why I stand strong with the Mayas that they have a right to their land.
ReplyDeleteThe article showed us that they are divided based on the fact that some want communal land while others wanted land for lease. The ones that are for communal land are securing the land to benefit all Mayas. While on the other hand, the ones that are for lease are securing the land for their personal benefit which is to seek for loans.
In my opinion both parties have different goals for this land. At the end of the day the land should be for them as they deserve the land. This is because they were here from way back then and they are the ones that are still here now. They shouldn't be fighting over the land which is causing a division. They should come together and stand as one people and look at the pros and cons of each side and then come to a general conclusion what they want. Land in Belize is valuable. As everybody wants a piece of land to develop and call it their own. People are always fighting for land and in worst case scenarios families are divided and some even get killed over land. This should not be so.
I share similar belief with the others who believe that the Mayas should stand up for what they believe that is theirs. The group that is for communal land rights in my view is thinking about preserving the land for the future generation and also for tradition purposes. They Mayas in general, need to come together and work as one people. In the end they can decide as one people what they would all prefer to do with the land (communal or lease).
I must agree with my colleagues for affirming their belief that the Mayas should be given access to the land that they are seeking.
ReplyDeleteJoan made an important point when she mentioned that that ministers are allotting prime lots to their cronies and family members. It is an unjust practice but unlike the Mayas the other Belizeans are not fighting for whats there but are instead settling for swamp land that cost a fortune to develop.
The mayas are standing up for their rights the way the late Charles Good stood up against political victimization. He like the Mayas must be commended. The Mayas need to stand together in unity as in unity there is strength. Recently the media highlighted the continueous stuggles of the Mayas from San Miguel in the Toledo district who stood up against investors who were building a Hydro Maya Dam. These people made it clear that they were not interested in the material gain to be obtained from this investment. Instead they echoed the sentiment of living in a peaceful and healthy environment.
Mohobob, one of Belize's reknown artist hit song "No sell you land",cautioned Belizeans about selling their land. All over our country people have experienced the consequence of what happen when they land is sold to foreigners. The people in Hopkins recently brought to the spotlight the incident of an investor buying land near their cemetery. This land fenced out the populace who had to seek permission from the owner to gain access to this burial ground.This caused quite an uproar. I wonder what was the end result?
If Belizeans stand up like the Mayas they can accomplish anything. Belize is our country and we should not allow ourselves to be bartered out.Land is a valuablue ressource that no amount of money can replace. Government officials need to respect the Mayas and grant them their wish to gain access to land because at this rate those lands will be the only land owned by Belizeans.
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